Aaron answers these questions:
- What is the most common thing agencies learn when they start getting client and caregiver feedback from Home Care Pulse?
- How are your customers leveraging client and caregiver feedback in their home care businesses?
- Given all of the data you collect for the Benchmarking Study and from clients and caregivers, how would you summarize what sets successful home care businesses apart from the others?
- The median caregiver turnover for the industry continues to rise. If you were starting another home care business today, what would you do to prevent or reduce turnover and why?
- What is the biggest missed opportunity for home care business owners?
Valerie V: Hey guys. Welcome to Facebook Live. This is the Valerie V show, and we are live today with Aaron Marcum from HomeCarePulse, and Aaron’s been around the block for a really long time. Maybe not as long as me but, he’s been around the block a while.
Aaron M: Right.
Valerie V: So, he can’t see anything right now, believe it or not. He’s … this is another one of those tech issue days but it’s not as bad as yesterday, so we’re good. We’re going to be fine here. He’s looking at a little hole in his camera and hoping that he can hear me still and all that.
Aaron M: I can hear you fine. And I’m not going to move much from side to side, and that’s hard for me. I’m a mover.
Valerie V: Okay, don’t move. But, here’s what we want you to do, Aaron. I know that … I know who you are and what you do, and the rest of many of the people that are watching are going to watch this replay will know, but some will not-
Aaron M: Right.
Valerie V: So, why don’t you give us a little roundup of what HomeCarePulse is and what they do, and I’ll ask these questions that you so kindly presented to us?
Aaron M: Right. So, let me just take it a little bit further back than that. I’m a former home care owner. I had my own home care agency. That’s what Valerie was saying I’ve been around for a long time. I started around Y2K. That’s when I started my own agency. And from that experience, I saw the need for data, satisfaction data in particular. We’re also very well known for our annual benchmarking studies on HomeCarePulse, but around 2005, I got the idea of doing satisfaction management for the home care industry because that’s what I needed for my own home care company. And based upon that idea, just kind of formulated in 2008 made it official; 2009 we brought on our first customers.
And our focus at HomeCarePulse is satisfaction. We measure client and caregiver satisfaction for over 1,600 home care providers throughout the country, some in Canada as well. And we provide monthly … it’s a monthly program where we’re measuring on a monthly basis to get you consistent trending and feedback from your clients and your caregivers so that you can analyze the data, find your promoters, grow your referral base. There’s just so many benefits from our program when it comes to growing your company; decreasing caregiver turnover; having proof of quality … we have our best of home care awards we started in 2010. Kind of the J.D. Power’s of home care, where they focus on the auto industry, we’re focused on home care and really driving performance among home care providers.
And so we work with some amazing home care companies throughout the country, who are focused on quality of care. And then the other side of our business … they connect, they overlap a bit, is our home care benchmarking study. We’re very well known for the data in the industry where we measure sales, marketing, financials, recruitment and retention … all those key indicators, as well as satisfaction, that we include in this annual home care benchmarking study. And it really, to me, it’s kinda like the Bible to the industry. It has an amazing amount of data and benchmarks, nearly 200 pages of just quality, good information. And we’re in our ninth addition this year.
Valerie V: Wow.
Aaron M: And our partners, The Home Care Association of America, they’ve partnered with us for the last nine years, ever since the first addition, so we’re proud of that fact. And they continue to be a great partner and endorse that study every year. That’s HomeCarePulse in a nutshell. There’s so much more but I’ll spare you the real nitty gritty details.
Valerie V: And just so everybody knows, if you want to learn about pricing or you wanna know more about the study or how you can participate, or whatever it is you want to learn, HomeCarePulse.com. Real easy. Just go there and you can find all that information.
Aaron M: Absolutely.
Valerie V: And I love that benchmarking study. I love it.
Aaron M: Thank you.
Valerie V: It’s so insightful as to what people are expecting versus experiencing versus using … especially for me in the marketing area, I love reading that. So-
Aaron M: Yeah, yeah. Great.
Valerie V: Let’s talk about when people … when you have an agency subscribe to your services or start services, what’s the most common thing they learn when they start getting client and caregiver feedback from HomeCarePulse?
Aaron M: I think the most common thing … that’s a great question. The most common things is they find out they thought they knew what was going on in their business, but they’re surprised to find out, both good and bad, I’m not just saying negative things. They find out that, “Wait, we’re doing better than we thought we were” in some cases. In some cases, they go, “Oh wow, I didn’t know that client felt that way.” And so, it’s more of a surprise of, “Wow, I didn’t realize that this was going on.” Especially as they go … by the sixth month, they’re able to identify trends and they start seeing those trends and going, “Okay, this is where we need to improve. Our caregivers wanna be recognized more and we’re not recognizing them enough.” Or on the client side, “We’re not communicating from the office.”
That’s actually … we score that, the caregiver’s … on the caregivers’ side, we score recognition, all those things. On the client side, communication from the provider is an important area in which we rate. We work with that.
Valerie V: That’s great. We harp on our clients at LTC to give us more content and I pound on them about it, anyway. But one of the things that we recommend is caregiver of the month, or some recognition program. And people say, “Oh, that’s hokie pokie.” No it’s not. No it’s not.
Aaron M: No.
Valerie V: It actually … it helps two things. Number one, your caregiver feels appreciated. And number two, you’re community understands that you have caregivers worth appreciating, which all the way around, that makes a whole lot of sense. It really does help. So, I’m glad to hear you say that. Yeah, I mean, I think none of us know enough about … we hope everything’s good but we’re probably like, “Oh, I don’t know.” And so, this is great. Everyone that we have as clients that also use HomeCarePulse rave about it, they love it. And because we’re the [inaudible 00:06:37] and web developer, we’re putting out those words on their website every chance we can get.
Aaron M: That’s right. That’s right.
Valerie V: We do a lot of that.
Aaron M: Yeah. And you know what we find too is that when they’re looking at this feedback and they’re making those connections, they can get in a proactive mode rather than a reactive mode. And they can enhance that client experience like they never were able to do before. They’re getting the actual perceptions of their clients. And so, it’s a powerful resource. It really is when it comes to making sure they can … they’re not always waiting for those phone calls, you know. That they’re being proactive.
And people will tell us things that they normally won’t tell their provider because we’re third party. We’re detached from that. They feel like they can be a little bit more open and so we’re getting some really … feedback is a big thing for us. A score by itself doesn’t tell you a whole lot. It’s only half the story, and so feedback really tells you why they scored you a certain way, so we do both.
Valerie V: Sure. Absolutely. So, when your customers who are using HomeCarePulse, when they get that caregiver feedback and client feedback, how are they leveraging that? How else can they use it?
Aaron M: You know, there’s a lot of ways. One of the best ways, and I shout from the rooftops on this one, is that identify your promoters. The program really helps bring out who are your promoters so you can focus on more those promoters and connect with them for referrals and so forth. And just … we find that if you can focus the majority of your time, 60%, 70% on promoters, you create more promoters through referrals. Your referral sources like hospitals and so forth get wind of that through the clients that you’re sharing them with, that gets around … it’s a powerful … and the data for the last nine years has proven this. The number one referral source. Number one revenue generator are clients.
Valerie V: Yep.
Aaron M: And so, that’s your own existing or past clients that are happy. So, promoters, leveraging those promoters that you’re able to identify, and otherwise it’s really hard to identify if you’re trying to do that yourself, and very difficult. The other thing is trends … I mentioned that before, is that trending … are we … where are we improving? You know, our new initiatives that we put in place, are they making a difference? And you can see from the client perspective or the caregiver perspective, that they are.
Say you put in a new caregiver mentor program, which is something we advocate here at HomeCarePulse too is that early on, onboarding these caregivers, and this a new process, new system, and you want that feedback and you wanna know what’s going on. Well this is … our program helps you understand, “Okay, are these things working? Are they not?” So, leveraging the feedback, the data, the trending data, the benchmarking data in every way possible.
Another great way to leverage that is just to sit down with your team every month and go through and you can identify all your promoters, and we call them passives. Those who are, on a scale of one to 10, likely to recommend services. Say they say seven to eight, those are passives to us. They’re not a nine and a 10, they’re just kind of, you know, services are great. They’re fine. I’m not blown away by them but you know, that kind of client.
And then you’ve got your detractors. Those are your really unhappy clients, and it’s important to know who they are because they’re the ones really … your promoters are fine, they’re happy, they’re not out there advocating as much. That’s why you have to have a referral campaign in place for them. Your detractors, they’re a lot more willing to open their mouths-
Valerie V: Oh yes.
Aaron M: So, you’ve got to understand who they are and leveraging that feedback and that data … and we have reports that help them identify who their detractors are and their promoters are, we have a full report that just lays that all out for them. So, you know, there’s many ways to leverage this information.
Valerie V: Yes, and when those caregivers especially, if they’re detractors, they are of the demographic and age group where they know how to go on Google.
Aaron M: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Valerie V: It’s a little different than some of our older folks are not as web savvy perhaps, your client, your caregivers are very web savvy. Or they can figure out how to be really quick.
Aaron M: Absolutely. They’ll go to Glassdoor … whatever it might be and shout from the rooftops there. So it’s important to … we have what’s called our caregiver engagement score. It’s similar to the net promoter score, where it’s based upon the highly recommend … I know some people don’t know what the net promoter is but basically it’s a scoring system based upon whether they’re going to recommend services. Well, we have a similar kind of calculation or scoring with caregivers based upon whether or not they’re going to recommend employment, and we measure that in our program. And that gives you great information on are your caregivers engaged; what are the areas that you can work on to help them stay engaged so that they become loyal fans and recommend more caregivers? We find A+ caregivers usually know other A+ caregivers and you’re going to get more of that through like an employee referral program. It all ties together.
Valerie V: So yeah, those are great ways to leverage that. So, let’s talk about the benchmarking study for a minute because that is one of your claims to fame, and something I look forward to seeing every year. So, how would you summarize what sets a successful home care business apart from the others?
Aaron M: Good question. I would say the number one thing, and this again ties to satisfaction but it also ties to so many other things, is the client experience. And when I say the client experience, I’m not just talking about when they start services. I’m talking about when they call in and inquire about your services. That’s where that experience … even actually, it even starts before that. That first introduction to your agency, whether it be through a referral partner that you’re working with, how much did that referral partner communicate to them about your agency; what sets you apart? You want them to be your advocates. It starts there and it trickles down through when they start services. Every little thing that you’re giving as far as the experience, it’s the invoice. If your invoices are hard to read, they may become a disgruntled client just over your invoices. When they’re talking to a family or a friend, they may say something in the lines of I can’t understand their invoices, and that family or friend may not use your services because of that.
So, there’s … the client experience I think, as you look at, not just the satisfaction section of the benchmarking study but you look at the whole picture of sales and marketing, operations, recruitment and retention … I mean really, the client experience is directly correlated with the caregiver experience. A happy caregiver is a happy client and so I think if you peeled the onion back with all the data that we provide in the benchmarking study, and you look at that data as a whole, it really comes back to the client experience. It really comes back to providing that ultimate experience. Setting your agency apart. And I think that, you know, sales for full-time employee is a measurement that we rate. And a lot of people will say well what does that have to do with the client experience? Well it has a lot to do with it because it helps you evaluate whether you’re understaffed or you’re overstaffed. And if you’re understaffed, that’s going to effect the client experience.
And so, every one of these data points connect back to that. So, if you look at all the data as a whole, and you say, “Okay, how can we use this data to help improve the client experience?” Then you are creating a competitive edge. Then you’re … I think you’ll get the full picture better if you approach it from that direction, you know, from the client experience direction on data. Because what good is data if you can’t apply it and you’re not … you know, and I think the client experience also connects to our why, as home care owners. And I say, you know, because I used to be one so I understand that. My why was I wanted to serve others. I wanted to provide a wonderful service, and that was the foremost thing in my mind. And how can I use data to leverage that? And it starts in so many aspects. Your inquiry … there’s a measurement that we calculate, inquiry to admission ratio.
So, that’s a percentage of inquiries to actually become clients. And if you take that, and you’re measuring that closely, you’re going to improve how your intake process … what’s happening there. How your assessments are going and what you’re doing in your assessments, and then bringing them onboard as a client. Those all connect and it’s all about the client experience in a way. That was a long answer but hopefully that helped.
Valerie V: No, that’s great. You know what? Bringing it all together whether you’re new in the business or old in the business, understanding how a service like yours can really give a good picture of the little process improvements that can take place to help the whole business scale and become more successful. Even if you are already successful, become more successful because you’re making small improvements in these little pieces that are so important to your clients and to your caregivers. So, that was a great answer.
Aaron M: Thank you.
Valerie V: So, let’s talk about caregivers for a minute. This is the roughest part, I mean, I think, of home care in general is staffing. So, the median caregiver turnover for the industry continues to go up. We see that all the time. So, if you were starting another home care business today, what would you do better or do you start over and why?
Aaron M: You know, I know that sounds like a scary proposition, those who are starting today but wow, we didn’t have the data back in 2002-
Valerie V: That’s true.
Aaron M: When I started, and there’s some things you can certainly leverage, not just starting but currently running. And, we have an acronym that we’ve kinda attached ourselves to here at HomeCarePulse called STAE, and it’s S-T-A-E. We kind of took some liberties with that E. But, really, how do you get your caregivers to stay? You know, the number one threat in the industry and the benchmarking study shows this for the last, we’ve been tracking the threats for I think four years now, five years maybe, and it’s been caregiver shortages. You know, recruiting enough caregivers.
And the reason turnover is happening is that when … if we’re not doing those little things and keeping the caregivers, we’re constantly out there looking for new caregivers and struggling finding those new caregivers, and it’s just a cycle. You know, that cycle just continues. But if you can … the acronym STAE stands for support … S is for support; the T is for training; the A is for appreciation or being appreciated; and then the E is engagement, keeping them engaged.
So, the support side of it is that first 90 days. If you look at the data, and I can’t remember what page this is on, I could look it up here on the benchmarking study … and we actually measure this within our satisfaction program because we track termination and hire dates within our satisfaction program. And so based upon that data, we looked at all the caregivers who left in the last 12 months, basically 2017, and at what moment in time did they leave or were terminated, either way? In the first three months, I think it’s 57% left in the first three months.
Valerie V: Yeah.
Aaron M: And so, if you can help them feel supported early on, on the way that you’re connecting with the why and connecting like even in the orientation, they’re understanding what the expectations are; you’re giving them your why and making sure that’s connected in the interview process, making sure they’re not just looking for a job. See we have to, and I know this is tough, for some people it’s like we just need to get a warm body or a caregiver to take care of this client. Well the problem with that is that as soon as that caregiver leaves within the first 90 days and it’s guaranteed that that type of caregiver … not guaranteed but pretty sure that caregiver’s going to leave in the first 90 days, you’re back out there looking for another caregiver. You’re spending so much time figuring … trying to fill those shifts-
Valerie V: Cycling.
Aaron M: Yeah, if we can just get it done right upfront, and even if we have to be extremely selective, which I think we should be in the caregivers that we hire, they’re going to stay longer, and if we support them early on. One of the things that we advocate here at HomeCarePulse is a caregiver mentor program. I did this with my home care business as well way back when, and had my senior caregivers would help our new caregivers hired, every week they would connect with them for the first 60 days. And they actually, when possible, it’s not always possible, when possible, they would go out on their first shifts, spend the first hour or two on their very first shift. Just making sure that they’re comfortable. So, they got that connection. And the senior caregivers I’m talking about are already raving fans of my home care company. They really believe in what we’re doing and so getting those connections around that support.
And then the training. Every month, holding those trainings, we’re getting to be … technology is great. You know, what we’re doing right now is great, where we’re connecting nationally. Pretty amazing what we can do. But nothing can replace that personal touch. And if you can do trainings every month where you bring your caregivers in house … I know some of the rural markets, it’s a little more of a challenge, but bring them in house whenever possible. We would have two to three of the same trainings every month just so we could get everyone together. And it was paid training. We had our care coordinators coordinate schedules, and we actually let our clients know that this is a priority of us right in the assessment, that we have these monthly trainings. That sometimes their mom or dad may get a caregiver for an hour or two that would come in and help them out.
I know that’s an additional cost but it comes back to you in the long run because you retaining them more. And those trainings, it’s not all about skill training. It’s about … say it is the primary subject might be on transferring or dementia care or communication with those who have dementia, but every training you should be spending the first 10 to 20 minutes on the emotional connection with those caregivers. So, you’re having your senior caregivers share stories about, you know, what happened the previous month. Things that connect to your core value as your company. Talking about your core values. Recognizing, spending that first 10 to 20 minutes recognizing caregivers who are going above and beyond, giving out the gift cards whatever it might be. And then go into your training, into your skill training. Have food there. Make that a connection. An opportunity to connect to your caregivers. Those little things help and that’s part of the support and training that kind of go hand in hand.
And then the appreciation, having a recognition budget every month. If you are a larger company and you have field supervisors out there, give them a budget where they can recognize. They know, “Okay, I’ve got $100. I’ve gotta by $10 gift cards, 10 of them. I am going to recognize 10 caregivers this month for going above and beyond for our core values.” And formalizing, not standardizing, but formalizing that recognition. Making sure that it’s documented, that there’s something to it, which includes random recognition. You know, that’s the best time to recognize is when they don’t expect it.
I love that book, Drive by Daniel Pink. He talks about this. That people are more driven if they receive that more random recognition but on the office side, they need to know when and how and so that’s how you formalize it. You know, when’s an appropriate time? What’s my budget to be able to do this? That kind of thing is really important.
Valerie V: That piece speaks to me … I mean all of it’s great, but the recognition piece. These people don’t get paid enough. I mean, it’s a business. We have to run our business, and we have margins, and have very low margins. So you can’t pay people what they really should be paid to do this difficult work, but to just give them some small amount of appreciation, or maybe it’s large at the end of the year. Maybe caregiver of the year out of all the people who’ve been recognized. Maybe they get a $500 bonus at the end of the year. Or maybe … whatever you can afford is fine, but that helps that person buy more groceries this month or buy something for themselves or their kids, they’re not expecting it. It’s just that nice little something that helps them get through that week. So, I totally agree with you there.
Aaron M: Absolutely.
Valerie V: Absolutely, and so, we’re on the E. What’s E?
Aaron M: E, sorry, yes, engagement.
Valerie V: Engagement.
Aaron M: Engagement, and getting them engaged. And that’s more of the consisting … you take the first three and you just get consistent with those things. Especially the recognition, you know, keeping that engagement. But, like in your trainings, engagement would also include role playing with the caregivers. Raffle tickets, you know, when they raise their hand on certain questions and you throw out a raffle ticket at the end of the training, you’re doing a raffle or whatever. Engagement also includes your newsletters and spotlighting caregivers that they can see their peers.
Engagement, you know, is kind of the whole package as far as keeping them in tune with what’s going on with the business, making sure that they’re treated like an equal in the business. And that’s a challenge that we see, unfortunately, with some home care providers that we get feedback that they’re being condescending to their caregivers and that they … that loses engagement like nothing else is when they have a supervisor who thinks that just because of their position that they are just better than their caregivers, they talk down to their caregivers, they get upset at their caregivers for sometimes … yeah, caregivers aren’t perfect. They make mistakes. We know this. But we just have to avoid talking down to them. We gotta treat them as equals because that’s what they are and they’re doing the hard work.
And again, it also starts with the hiring process to make sure you’re getting the right caregivers. But, you know, the engagement is really the whole package. What are you doing to keep them engaged? On the employee referral program, that’s another way of keeping them engaged … is that every time they’re referring someone that comes on board as a caregiver, after they’ve had so many hours … I typically don’t like to wait more than 30 days after they’ve referred someone that’s come on as a caregiver. I want them to receive that payment within that first 30 days so try to make it whatever your parameters you’re using, make it within 30 days and make it big enough.
Turnover is expensive.
Valerie V: Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron M: If you can pay a caregiver that’s referring another caregiver $250, you’re saving money, especially if you’re keeping that caregiver longer than 12 months. It’s worth spending that money. And that also helps with engagement. So, you know, and remember a happy caregiver is a happy client, so it all relates back to the client experience.
Valerie V: That’s awesome. Thank you so much because those are some of the things that, you know, if we don’t hear this stuff over and over again, some people are just at the end of their rope and don’t know. But that’s why you guys are such a great resource too because I know that not only do you provide the services but this is all stuff that you guys teach and promote and help with along the way.
Aaron M: Yeah, I find myself being repetitive. But I’ve made the decision that there’s not a magic bullet when it comes to caregiver retention and the client experience. It is a full-blown, you know, we’ve gotta have strategies in different areas that help our business grow and I share a lot of the same strategies because they work. If people would just put them into practice and if you complicate it too much, then it never happens. So, these are very simple things that you can do.
Valerie V: Absolutely. All right, last question: what is the biggest missed opportunity for home care business owners?
Aaron M: Okay and I know that this is hopefully not sound too repetitive but-
Valerie V: That’s okay.
Aaron M: Client referrals I think is the biggest lost opportunity … people get so pulled to the sidelines by the detractors, they’re the squeaky wheels in our business. And that … we need to help them. Obviously, we need to try to rehabilitate them to become promoters but there are some detractors that may not be right for our business, and maybe we need to refer them to our favorite three competitors … I don’t know. But sometimes they are detractors and we’re not serving them well by, you know, we’re not just going to turn that around. And detractors tend to take our attention away from promoters and what ends up happening is those promoters, those fans of our business who were once fans, because we’re neglecting them, they end up turning into passives and eventually, they could end up turning into detractors, which hurts really our ability to grow.
And so, if we could focus on our promoters and by, one, making sure they’re always getting a positive client experience. And our passives too. They’re more easy to pull up into that promoter category but if you can get those focus on those promoters, and one of the most competitive advantages that the leaders in the home care industry have is they open their mouths. They ask for the referrals. So many people are afraid to ask their existing clients or past clients for referrals. They don’t have a referral campaign. They’re so focused on their home health partners and discharge planners and trustees, trusted advisers, bank advisers, which is a great one by the way that people miss out on sometimes. But they’re so focused on these other referral sources that they’re missing their greatest referral source right in front of them. In fact, it’s the number one revenue generator based upon, I believe … I can’t remember if we tracked it our first year, but at least eight years of data tell us that clients are the number one revenue generator. Meaning they refer, generate more revenue for our business.
And so, if we can build a client referral campaign, you know, I use this example … at every quarter, send them a discount card that they can hand out to their friends and neighbors, three or four of them, with a letter stating, outlining the program that if they hand this card out, they’ll get 10% off a week’s worth of service, or 15% off a week’s worth of service and so will the person they refer. Just little things like that, and keep it consistent. Asking them for the referrals. If they’re calling your billing person about their bill and they’re raving about their caregiver, Betty, who’s been coming for a couple years, that billing person needs to be trained on how to ask for a referral. What a great opportunity right then to ask, you know, do you know anyone in your bridge club? Do you know, you know, that could benefit from the services like you have? And I think it’s important when you ask for referrals to remind them of the benefits that you provide. To remind them why you’re asking for the referral. That you want others to benefit like they have. In the how you ask is where I’m not just being so generic. Try and be as specific as possible.
If you know they’re part of a bridge club or they live in a community where there’s a lot of seniors, try to be specific to that kind of network that they already are aware of. But again, I think the competitive edge … I know some people would say something different, you know, what is the biggest missed opportunity? Some might say, you know, obviously we’ve talked about caregiver retention. Obviously a big opportunity but for me personally I just see that people are missing out on that low … it’s not … it really is low hanging fruit as you’ve got promoters out there who love what you do and have benefited from it. Tap into them as a referral source is I think a great way to grow your business.
You can say your clients are your number one referral source, it says a lot about your agency.
Valerie V: It does. Oh, absolutely, and it should be that way. And we … I feel like we never do enough but even, for any business, your referrals should be your number one source in business usually, for any small business anyway. So, yeah, I feel like I’m learning from you even though I’m not technically in the home care business, of course we need to recognize our promoters more and we need to ask for testimonials more so when that billing person is on the phone, and they say something amazing, or you get that email that talks about how wonderful Mary is when she … how much Mom loves it when Mary comes to the house. Thank you so much. That’s an opportunity to turn that into not only a referral but also a testimonial for you, whether it’s your website or your Facebook or your wherever you wanna put it. But ask. Can we use your kind words to tell others, you know, how much you love our services? We would be thrilled. And you know, take out the names and just put in initials and do it.
So, use those promoters in every way you can. Absolutely. Great advice
And Aaron, I wanna thank you so much for being on the show today-
Aaron M: My pleasure. Thank you so much.
Valerie V: This was fun. I’m sorry you’ve looked at a little teeny camera for all this time-
Aaron M: No problem. You know what? As long as you can hear me and can see the bottom half of my nose-
Valerie V: Yeah, you’re fine.
Aaron M: Not sure what you’re looking at but I appreciate me and everyone joining on, so thank you so much.
Valerie V: Thanks-
Aaron M: Thanks for all you do, Valerie.
Valerie V: All right. We’ll talk to you soon and I’ll send you the replay. Thanks, everybody. Goodbye.
Aaron M: Bye-bye.