Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

This is Valerie VanBooven with the Senior Care Industry Netcast, where leaders with three or more years of experience in the senior care market share their advice. So with that, let’s get to it. Today we’re doing something a little bit different. We are talking to all of you who are business owners, especially the ladies out there, but anybody who is a business owner will enjoy this episode. So in a few sentences, tell us who you are and what you do.

Andrea Nelson:

Hi, my name is Andrea Nelson, and I am an HR professional by sort of trade. I have created my own business called AND Consulting Group, and our mission is to create more courageous cultures, teams, and leaders. So, I work with leaders of organizations to help them with their personal courage and their leadership courage, and to help their organizations flourish.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

Awesome and I can’t wait for you to tell us more about this in just a second. But tell us, what is the best thing about serving business owners and leaders?

Andrea Nelson:

It’s watching people’s real ambitions in life come to fruition. So it’s watching their goals develop and their dreams come to life, and knowing that they’re able to do that through authenticity and their passion for what they’re delivering.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

Absolutely. I would say so. Anytime you see somebody else succeed and you know that you maybe could have been a little bit of a help along the way, that’s always a great day-

Andrea Nelson:

So true. So true.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

So I would imagine in your lifetime and in your professional career, there have been inspirational leaders, organizations. Who is it out there or what is it out there that has been a real inspiration to you and has had you take this new step into doing this consulting?

Andrea Nelson:

Yeah. Actually it’s a public figure. If you’ve heard of Dr. Brené Brown and her work on vulnerability and courage, it’s actually been the pivot point of my career that’s taken me from a 20-plus year of corporate HR leadership, into this, I’m doing it on my own, with the idea that helping to build leaders helps everyone they touch in their business. It helps everyone to have a more fulfilling work-life, which also makes their life in general more fulfilling.

Andrea Nelson:

So Brené Brown had written a series of books that I had been interested in and had been reading, and I was exposed to a new book she had, Dare to Lead. That one really spoke to me and the work that I was doing at the time. I spent a bunch of time doing the worksheets and the work and on my own, and then realized that she was offering certified facilitation.

Andrea Nelson:

In 2019, I had the opportunity to go to San Antonio, Texas, and spend three days with her and about 100 other people, and really get deep into the material and learn how to help use the framework of Dare to Lead to actually build courage. And to learn that it was a teachable, measurable skill was profound for me, eye opening, and I just felt like I had to share that and get that to people.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

You know what? I think about this, and I think, you got to go in 2019, to me, that’s so awesome that you went in 2019 and you made it. It was before a pandemic and all, that you got this training. Because had you waited a year, had you waited a few months, then you would not have been able to go. So, I think this was meant to be.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

Anybody who’s heard of Brené Brown or read her books or watched her TED Talk, which I’ve done more than once now, which I know is just the tip of the iceberg of what she has, and there’s been of course many shows and I don’t know, documentary, but interviews is a good part of her on TV and online, it’s amazing. And she has a podcast now, I know.

Andrea Nelson:

Yeah, yeah.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

So to be able to work with her in person, I’m sure that was totally amazing.

Andrea Nelson:

Yeah, it was definitely inspiring. It was her in the room, it was her team, but it was also the other 100 or so professionals that were there committed to this work, and to feel this sense of community and know that there were change agents that would go out in the world and help leaders and organizations to be able to be authentic and their true selves.

Andrea Nelson:

Because I think in my experience, I had missed that in a couple of the roles that I had had. I never really felt like I could bring my true full Andrea to work, right? The fact that I was a mom and a daughter and a sister and friend, and I felt like I had to button it up and be something that was expected. So to really feel that community of people that were bringing this to the world was pretty incredible.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

That’s awesome because, you know what? I think, and I know this is a sidebar, but our moms know each other. But I do remember, when our moms worked together a long time ago, and we never met until we were adults and lived in the same neighborhood, which is weird, but it’s a small world.

Andrea Nelson:

It is.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

But I can honestly say that having both of us brought up by very strong female influences in our life, very hard workers, corporate driven, those kinds of moms, they did not bring their whole self to work. They buttoned up, and it was a mom and it was mom at work. There was definitely a difference.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

Even going into work on a Saturday with Mom just because she didn’t know what else to do with me, and she had to go to work to finish up something or paperwork, I do remember you have to look nice, you have to behave yourself. I mean, there was a very much different mom at work than there was at home. So they did not get to bring their true, authentic selves to work very often.

Andrea Nelson:

No. And when I first embraced this work, I actually worked for a female president of the company that I was working with, and she and I were talking about this. It was a big awakening for us, and we started saying like, “You know what? We are moms, we are leaders, and we might be actually part of the problem if we aren’t telling people and showing people how messy it really is.”

Andrea Nelson:

Because if people are sitting there thinking, “Wow, she can do it all. She’s figured out how to manage business and work and kids,” and they don’t know that actually I accidentally missed something I was supposed to do, or no, actually somebody called and somebody’s sick, and I got my husband to pick them up this time, or I have to run because somebody forgot their lunch, if I don’t show them those things, then people assume that somehow I’ve found some magic that they haven’t and it’s going to hold them back.

Andrea Nelson:

And so when we started, we called it sharing our messy selves and our messy lives, it gave permission to everybody on the team, also the dads, to say, “You know what? I don’t normally go to Donuts with Dads because I’m a professional and I’m supposed to be at work.” And it’s like, “Can I do it, too?” “Yes. Yes, you can.” Because when we’re all human, we’re all better.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

That’s right. Exactly. I love this. This is so good. It’s strange when you say that because in my lifetime, I’ve had a professional career where I was very [inaudible 00:07:30]. And I’m a nurse by trade, so you’re very [inaudible 00:07:33] anyway.

Andrea Nelson:

Yeah.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

And then in a corporate role as a nurse, and this is all pre-kids, I was able to pull it together, at least in all real works, so that was no problem. But having my own business for all these years, I’m pretty transparent about what’s going on, and I always have been. Not in a way that’s hopefully not annoying to people, but if I do a video and I hear laughter of a couple of teenagers in the next room, I just keep going and say, “Oh, it’s my kids,” and move on. That has not… Nothing about being transparent about the kids, the husband, or any of those things as I own my own business, has ever I think, hampered our business at all. It is what it is.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

And so I agree with you that in our corporate lives, we should be able, and when we’re not working for ourselves and can’t do whatever we want, we should be able to share our families a little bit, within limits I guess, but be able to share our families, be able to share our struggles. I think that makes me feel better. I think the people I talk to feel better because, if somebody’s got a kid crying in the other room and has to get up for a second, it doesn’t bother me, I have kids, I get it. It’s not a big deal. So I think in our corporate lives, understanding that through leadership and through the things that you teach is amazing.

Andrea Nelson:

Yeah. It starts with role modeling and it does have to be safe. You mentioned like, when you’re your own boss, you can set those standards. So what kind are you setting for others, and what’s okay? Boundaries is a big part of this work and saying like, “It’s okay to do this, but not this.” Setting those boundaries and expectations allow us to be clear with individuals, and to help us really get to where we want to go.

Andrea Nelson:

So it’s okay to say, we’re going to be human with each other, and there are certain places with clients or with what have you where we’re going to button it up a little bit. But when we’re done, we’re going to have a dance party with our toddlers, whatever works. But you set boundaries and then people understand how they can flex within them.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

Yes. Yep, absolutely. I think that everybody… We certainly don’t have a perfect team. We all do work from home and we all do have our limitations. And then as an employee of our company, I don’t have any strict roles or limitations, but I think everybody, at least on our team for all these years, just pretty much gets it. If you can’t be on the phone without a baby sitting in your lap, that’s probably… Maybe don’t get on the phone with-

Andrea Nelson:

Take five minutes, calm the situation down and join back, right?

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

Right.

Andrea Nelson:

There’s ways to do that.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

Yeah. But it has worked for us really well. But again, I’m not perfect, our team’s not perfect, and I’m sure, and I know I’ve said this to you before that, no matter how old I am, as [inaudible 00:10:49] the business, I could benefit from the messages that you teach. I don’t doubt that at all. So this isn’t just for new entrepreneurs or new business owners or people in corporate roles, it’s for everybody from beginning to end, whether you’re 25 or 55, learning that these processes and techniques-

Andrea Nelson:

In this work, the role of leader is defined as anyone who has influence over people or processes. So you don’t have to use a narrow view of leader. It’s really, if you have influence and we all have influence in our worlds, understanding yourself better, understanding your values, understanding how to build trust, understanding how to bounce back or be resilient, all of these are the tools of courage.

Andrea Nelson:

And so when you can apply those to yourself and the environment around you, again, you’re then setting the right example for your team to be able to try and fail, and try again, and not be afraid and holding themselves back. Because when we are… Part of this work says that, it’s not fear that holds us back. We’re all afraid and do it every day, right? Like there’s things we’re afraid of and we still do, but we’ve got to really lean into this courage building skill so that we understand that it’s okay to be seen, and that it’s really not the fear of doing it, but it’s the fear of really being seen, of being vulnerable, that holds us back, and we build armor and keeps us from connecting with people.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. Well, I’m going to keep going in my questions, because I know you have so much more to share. So access to leadership development and team building. You gave me these questions, so that’s why I’m kind of reading them because, they’re a little different from what we normally do. But team building is harder for small teams. So I have a small team, where should we start?

Andrea Nelson:

I really gave this a lot of thought when I was moving out of corporate world, because part of the inspiration for me is, in the big corporate ecosystem, the access to big curriculum or high cost speakers, it’s more available. So how do you start when you’re a smaller business or you have a smaller team?

Andrea Nelson:

A couple of the things I would say is, if you are an independent business owner, find a community, and by community of other people who own businesses. Because what I’ve learned in my work so far is that, you can’t really just look to your team or your leaders for that. If you need to have a sounding board or you need like, “Hey, I’m dealing with this, or where am I struggles?” You need to have a place of like-minded individuals, where you can come together and say, “How would you handle and use each other?”

Andrea Nelson:

There’s lots of places you can find this. We’re working to start one with AND Consulting, but we’re also looking at different Facebook groups, or LinkedIn communities, or even the community of similar customers, Valerie, like people who all have these kinds of businesses, that can get together and just say, “We’re not here to compete, but what is it… I had a situation where, or how did you handle when?” And build that kind of community.

Andrea Nelson:

The other example is organizations within your… Like chamber of commerce or what have you, where you can get with people. But then also to look at organizations in your area, usually either through SHRM or there’s like organizational development networks, and there could be people that would be willing to do like a one hour information session or speak to your team, and then with the idea that you might work with them in the future.

Andrea Nelson:

So really just telling people what you need and putting that out there, people will make the connections. But to me, it’s around finding a sense of community and people to talk to, because it is important that we develop as leaders, regardless of if we have a big infrastructure around us. Because it’s still our vision that we want to bring to life, our company and our mission, and if we have the leadership skills that we need, we can bring the company and the people with us, to deliver that.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

You’re right. I think that that’s spot on because, as a small business owner, I second guess myself all the time. I think as a person who owns a small business, when you’re doing fine but you know you could do better, you start wondering things like, do I have the right people in place? But that’s so comfortable to leave them there because, they do do the job, but are they going to help you get to the next level? No. But if they weren’t there, then I’d be like, [inaudible 00:15:31]. So keeping people too long who are in the wrong role, and maybe they’d be better for a different role in your company, or maybe they just don’t belong, you’ve outgrown them or whatever, and we’ve had that happen.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

For somebody who has had a small team, and I think for those of us who work individually and/or with small businesses, it’s hard to do things like let people go. It’s hard to because they become like family to you, and you suddenly realize one day that you’ve outgrown their skill or their abilities. It’s hard to know… And when you need somebody else, you can’t talk to your team about that.

Andrea Nelson:

No. That would be maybe the other piece of advice is just realize that when you need something, you ask for it. And it can feel like, “Well, I don’t want to spend money doing something or it’s another investment.” But honestly, with the way that the job market is right now, it is pretty easy to buy skills that you need for project level work, even from an HR consultant perspective or a leadership coach or any of that, where you can buy just the hours that you need to get what you need thought through or planned. And so don’t be afraid to reach out for help. I think it’s so much easier. There are so many people out there, especially post 2020, that are looking to re-imagine their work, that you can just grab and say like, “Hey, can I talk to you about this for a second?” But reach out.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

Yeah, absolutely. All right. What piece of advice would you give to senior care providers? No, no, no. What piece of advice would you give to entrepreneurs, business owners, people in a corporate role, looking to build their leadership skills?

Andrea Nelson:

The very first step, and of course the Dare to Lead Program is a great option, so I would obviously offer that. It absolutely has changed my life. But the place to start, a really tactical place to start is to make sure that you have personal values well-defined. Because when you know yourself best, you can use those values in every situation in your life, to help explain the choices that you’re making, to work through conflict with others.

Andrea Nelson:

So for example, if I know that my core values are integrity, optimism, then I know that I come into situations thinking like, “I want a good outlook on life.” Well if I end up working with someone and they don’t share that value, and they actually value deep analysis, we’re probably going to have some conflict as we go through, if they’re in this other side of the spectrum of maybe not pessimistic, but realistic.

Andrea Nelson:

So when we can say that and like, “Hey, I tend to value optimism. Can we think of ways we could get through this?” It helps shape my language, it shapes the way I show up. So as a leader, when you know your values and you know your insights, it leads to a better emotional intelligence, and it helps you to read the room better, but it also really gives you that north star of where to point.

Andrea Nelson:

So as a leader, if you don’t have personal values articulated, that’s where I would start. It will be amazing what that unlocks for you in your courage building journey.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

Very nice. All right. So what I’m going to do is, I’m going to have of course your website and all the contact information available with this video, because I think… So where I come from, obviously by reading my questions, is that, my clients and our clients are all senior service providers. Now having said that, a majority of them come from a caregiving mantra. They come from a caregiving heart. They come from a place of wanting to help others. And some of that is… All of it’s very genuine. I would say most of the folks that are in the home care business, or running an assisted living facility, or a care home, or whatever they do, they come from a place where they are a fixer. They’re a fixer of things.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

In fact, I have a little plaque on my desk from my longest running employee that says, “Fixer of everything.” And I kind of am a fixer. That comes from a long journey of always feeling like being a fixer. So there’s all kinds of you could go have therapy about that.

Andrea Nelson:

Yeah.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

But having said that, that’s where a lot of our clients come from. They want to help others. They want to fix. They want to solve problems. And in that role, it’s sort of a social service. It’s most of the time a privately paid social service. But we have a hard time as caregivers, number one, tooting our own horn, number one saying, “I need help,” because I’m the one that’s supposed to be helping everybody else. There’s all kinds of, I don’t want to say dysfunction because [inaudible 00:20:43], but we do get bogged down in, “I can do everything. No one can… If I ask somebody else to do it, they’ll just do it wrong, so I’m just going to take care of it. I’m not a group worker.” There’s a whole set of things that go on.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

So having said that, understanding your personal values, understanding what’s important to you, I think for those of you out there who watched this and who are in the senior care or healthcare of any kind, this is what healthcare has needed for a very long time, because we are the least likely people to bring ourselves to work. We’re the most likely people to be the fixer, the keeper of the peace, and all of those other things, and most likely to burn out, I would say. So this is much needed for those of us who have been in a caregiving role in our lives.

Andrea Nelson:

Yeah. A big foundation of this work is self-compassion, and speaking to yourself the way that you talk to others. So there’s a piece of just, can you valuate your own self trust when you’re thinking about trust with others? But also, can you be as gentle with yourself as you are with others? So when something goes wrong, or you made a mistake, or you forgot to do something, are the words that you say to yourself the same words that you would say to your team?

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

Very interesting.

Andrea Nelson:

And if not, why? And then we go deeper there, right?

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

Yeah. Wow. Wow. I might need wine for that. But no, I think this is super valuable. I think in the industry that I come from, this is long overdue and much needed. So I appreciate your wisdom, and time, and sharing with us what you do, because I do believe that people will reach out and see the value in what it is you’re bringing to the table. It’s very good.

Andrea Nelson:

Welcome.

Valerie VanBooven RN BSN:

Thank you.

Andrea Nelson:

Thank you, Valerie. Thanks for having me.